Smartidiot
Full Member
Om nom nom nom...
Posts: 233
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Post by Smartidiot on Jul 2, 2009 15:11:40 GMT -6
Picking a main is hard Pulse. Some people get a pick it up and play, like me and Lucas. On the other hand, some have to force themselves to play a character they enjoy to improve.
I just have a question, usually people have a main and they don't even know it. If you try out a character and feel like you utterly failed with that character, who do you go back too? Usually the turns out to be your main, in my case I tried Lucario and somewhat utterly fail. I still go back to Lucas and i would consider him my main. Try to go back to your basics are start out with who you started with.
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Post by Zephron on Jul 2, 2009 15:52:59 GMT -6
Overall in the end for me, it's up to which character I feel I like more. The style, the game, the personality.
If it fits me, I will try my best to get better with that character even if I utterly failed.
Because I know in the end, if I chose the other, I wouldn't feel right with it. It's not me.
That's why I main Lucas... and use Link as an alt even though he doesn't help me with my matchups all that much.
He's fun to play.
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Post by мғв=Bane on Jul 2, 2009 17:08:12 GMT -6
The higher you are on the tier list, theore Johns people have about you. Look at Metaknight. Nobody Fn likes Metaknight cuase he's a cheap SOB. I always complain when I lose to a top tier cause it's always from the bullshit that makes them top tier. Ex: I complain about Dedede because Dedede has his ridiculous grab range, and can chain throw every character I play as to atleast 40% (Diddy and Sheik to atleast 60% at longer stages). If Peach rose on the tier list I'd be pissed, cause then people like me will find terrible excuses to lose to them. Right now the only John for losing to Peach is simply getting your ass kicked the old-fashioned way. I got from this that you pick your mains based on how much the opponents will complain about it. People are going to john. Unless they are extremely...I don't know. I haven't seen many of them. Most want to just john but surpress it, it's truely rare to see someone who just doesn't john. Point is, it's going to happen, and you should just man up to it instead of trying to minimize it. I also got from your writing that you imidiately look for a scape-goat in your brawling instead of focusing on what you did wrong. Yes, Dedede has a great grab range, what next? So you lost to it, what are you going to do to beat him? It seems like you have identified the problem, but are unwilling to look for a solution. I therefore conclude that these two points are part of your competitive brawl philosophy. They seem to be included in how you play, and always matter in your decisions regarding this game. If this is how you want to play, go ahead, but it's going to limit your abilities to improve. These two points insulate you from a realization that your skill is lacking and your drive to improve is then lesser than it would be. Am I correct in these insights? They seemed worthy of noting and they kinda set me off when I saw them. I suppose whatevver you do from here is up to you, but I think you should at least recognize these things. Moving on... I just have a question, usually people have a main and they don't even know it. If you try out a character and feel like you utterly failed with that character, who do you go back too? Usually the turns out to be your main, in my case I tried Lucario and somewhat utterly fail. I still go back to Lucas and i would consider him my main. Try to go back to your basics are start out with who you started with. I think I have this happen when I play too. Wolf seems to be there, always waiting for me to choose him and fight. He just naturally fits my play style. I'm not sure if it's because my play style evolved while playing Wolf, or because my play style has not changed and Wolf is just best for it, but I feel most comfortable with Wolf. Other characters I kind of like become alts because I'm okay with them, but not super. I kinda lost my touch with Snake and Marth, Fox got the uber nerf, many times I get completely owned with ROB (you heard me emergency), my Toon Link is too projectile oriented and fails in the air, I don't avoid damage well enough with Pikachu, I'm too aggressive with Game and Watch and Olimar, and I can't seem to overcome Wario's range troubles (or what I percieve as range troubles). You may be like Og, where you don't have a strong playstyle that matches up with a character very well. Maybe your playstyle is not fully "synchronized" with a character to play your best. I don't know. You need to find that main yourself, and you are the only one who can truely way what works for you and what doesn't. |
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Post by Mac on Jul 2, 2009 19:15:03 GMT -6
I got from this that you pick your mains based on how much the opponents will complain about it. People are going to john. Unless they are extremely...I don't know. I haven't seen many of them. Most want to just john but surpress it, it's truely rare to see someone who just doesn't john. Point is, it's going to happen, and you should just man up to it instead of trying to minimize it. I also got from your writing that you imidiately look for a scape-goat in your brawling instead of focusing on what you did wrong. Yes, Dedede has a great grab range, what next? So you lost to it, what are you going to do to beat him? It seems like you have identified the problem, but are unwilling to look for a solution. I therefore conclude that these two points are part of your competitive brawl philosophy. They seem to be included in how you play, and always matter in your decisions regarding this game. If this is how you want to play, go ahead, but it's going to limit your abilities to improve. These two points insulate you from a realization that your skill is lacking and your drive to improve is then lesser than it would be. Am I correct in these insights? They seemed worthy of noting and they kinda set me off when I saw them. I suppose whatevver you do from here is up to you, but I think you should at least recognize these things. This is a segment of an interview with Ninjalink. This is sorta what I'm trying to say (regarding Dedede's grab range mostly): To have something such as an infinite would be completely unfair. You normally take some damage because u made a mistake in your defense. Having Infinites is basically saying you are not allowed 1 single mistake. It'll be a bit different if alot of characters have it but a little amount has them such as Ice Climbers and Dedede. There is other alternatives to racking damage other than infinites obviously. I understand taking 50-60% from making mistake but not your entire stock from 0%. It also kills the competitiveness from play.The whole interview is here: www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=234414On how I pick my mains, I believe in a previous post I stated how I do that, I can see where your confusion draws from though. Basing my competitiveness based on complaints is entire false. Just some characters have cheap tactics that take the fun out of the game strictly to win. When I see a Dedede or Ice Climbers, or another character with a 0-60% + chain grab only try to throw and neglect to try any other attacks it repels me away from the game a bit, because it has become a race to see who can grab first only to render your opponent helpless. This is what I think is too competitive (for a game), all the fun gets sapped out because of a cheap win tactic. I understand that this makes sense to do when money is on the line, but when two people are simply practicing to better themselves, it limits both players growth. The player initiating the chain grab is getting no better by just repeating the same button combination over and over again with no thought to try to win by using the character's full potential. The character being chain grabbed is just getting frustrated, and losing interest in the "fun factor" of the game. These cheap tactics limit the character's potential so then when they are used, other people complain and their perspective on the character is skewed because it seems like all Dedede (for example) can do is chain grab. Most of the top tier characters have someting that they can exploit over the other characters. Using these advantages in competitive brawl makes sense because the goal is to win and make money, but when practicing, or just playing with people who don't play competitively they shouldn't be used because, once again, it saps the fun out of the game. A game that is no fun, is not worth my time. Peach, to me, doesn't have a cheap tactic, so it requires me to adapt to my opponent and change up my style a bit to fight for the win instead of trying to use a 0 - 60 or death combo. |
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Post by Zephron on Jul 2, 2009 19:37:48 GMT -6
A game that is no fun, is not worth my time. Peach, to me, doesn't have a cheap tactic, so it requires me to adapt to my opponent and change up my style a bit to fight for the win...
In my eyes, every character has their own "cheap tactic". Some are just more cheap than others.
Lucas can camp with PK fire all day long against, say, Ganon. (Lol who can't?)
Of course, I'm screwed with TL.
Peach is a flying lady. That's cheap 
People have told me they are willing to be "cheap" just to win. DDD chaingrab as well as many others, (TL dsmash comes to mind, since Near told me it's so ruthless)
Personally, I'm willing to camp or freeze or grab or do whatever it takes for me to get my combo off or to kill them. I do get mad when Marths always resort to the infinite when they are losing, though. I don't even mind the CG that much but when it's a 0-death kill just by pummeling for 5 hours, now THAT'S just ruthless. |
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Post by Mac on Jul 2, 2009 21:28:53 GMT -6
A specific feature of a character such as floating, or having super armor on a move is not cheap. It's easy to spam arrows with Pit, but it's not as easy to use his arrows effectively in battle. Wario's air speed has to be utilized with skill so that's not cheap either.
A move/tactic that gives a distinct, irrevearsable advantage that requires little to no skill is cheap. Pikachu can 0-death Fox, and 0-100% Falco with his chain grab, THAT is cheap. Ice Climber's infinate is cheap.
Some may argue that Metaknight or Diddy's bananas cheap, but others would say that it takes skill to use bananas or gimp people at 30%. Marth's spacing game could also be cheap, but is that easy to do? Ask yourself.
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Post by Zephron on Jul 2, 2009 21:40:00 GMT -6
I was joking around with Peach being a "flying lady", since I always replied that to people when they told me I was being cheap in Melee.
I agree with any infinite being cheap, but Ice Climber's grabs are hard to do, especially de-synching them to make them grab the opponent again.
However, the ice block jab lock is very cheap and easy, and I can do it... That's the IC's one cheap thing.
MK depends... I've seen many WiFi gimps, some almost skillful gimps, and some pathetic MK gimps. There are some MK players who do know their character VERY well... but the time and effort required for that is probably low...
Diddy's banana throws also vary. I've seen a Diddy spike an opponent into a banana, which causes them to trip, then he zooms in and dsmashes them for a kill. IDK I think that's improvising and that's cool.
But when they just keep chucking them at your face followed with more bananas that's just stupid...
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Post by C307 on Jul 3, 2009 0:03:12 GMT -6
high tier intervention
icees cg to death: verdict.... not cheap: why.... u try doing it. Ya thats what i thought.
Dedede cg: verdict.... kinda cheap: why. depending on the character it reqiures perfect timing. Mac uve seen me mess up on Peach a lot.
Meta: verdict... not cheap. too many things break/clash with meta's specials, and he gets cged by yoshi zss and falco.
now on characcter maining
If u haven't noticed all of my chatacters have projectiles [excluding lord ike]. spacing and making the opponent approach is my style. Falco fits this style well and he is so darn fun to play as.
oh btw it is impossible to john to a captain falcon player. U KNOW when get man handled by him.
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Post by Emergency on Jul 3, 2009 9:04:52 GMT -6
I guess you can call ROB cheap for being a recovering bitch (but you can obviously punish it), and lasering and gyroing shit (that you can just powersheild anyway.), and a Dsmash. (That you can SDI up for.) I guess it's cheap that he doesn't get chain grabbed by people. I would like to argue your verdict on MK. Just because he gets chain grabbed by ...3 people. Doesn't keep him from raping them. A technical no lag character and infinite priority ( close ). Doesn't mean he doesn't waste other characters that aren't the CGers. People apply the wrong tactic to the wrong situation.  |
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Post by Zephron on Jul 3, 2009 9:27:47 GMT -6
I figured out the IC infinite in about 5 minutes : /
It's not that hard, people.
DDD I suppose does have different timing, but still. All you're doing is repeated dthrow to 40%+. Doesn't stop us from calling that cheap. Link is almost completely useless against MK. Link gets gimped every time... And that's all they go for. Always the easy kill <__<
As for Lucas, yeah he has good recovery so I survive but still I can nair him and as I'm doing it he can dsmash because it's freaking 2 frames. That's just plain crap. Then they whorenado me. The only thing I can do against that is dsmash or PK Freeze it. (Good Luck!)
And yeah. I've played some really crap MK's.
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Post by Emergency on Jul 3, 2009 10:07:20 GMT -6
1 Frame = Snake's Nades
2 Frames = MK's DownSmash
3 Frames = R.O.B.'s DownSmash
Saying MK isn't cheap is like saying DDD without throws.
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Post by Mac on Jul 3, 2009 19:55:14 GMT -6
To some of the above post, chain grabs are simple. All it takes is 5 minuted of concenterated practice, and you know it. To learn Pikachu's I watched half of a vid and had it down almost good enough to through in a pivot grab to add insult to injury.\
Chain grabs = Skilless pwnage = Cheap
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Post by C307 on Jul 3, 2009 20:06:41 GMT -6
there are other moves other characters have that are two frames
Meta knight is one of the lighter characters. That is his biggest weakness, And why they go for an early gimp. In a high percent match against, say snake meta will be killed fast.
Meta has one LONG grab release animation [not as long as Luca and Ness but still long] which can rack up nice dmg and set-up for other stuff.
Meta`s matchups are continually getting worse as other boards are figuring out what works. Meta has 4 50-50 matchups now, instead of one. Soon there will be a 60-40 in a different characters advantage soon enough.
P.S. ty Emergency, i never knew what direction to DI out of ROBS d-smash. thanx for info.
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Post by Emergency on Jul 3, 2009 20:11:56 GMT -6
Watch where you SDI for that, a Usmash might be coming to your face after getting out.
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Post by Mac on Jul 3, 2009 20:14:52 GMT -6
there are other moves other characters have that are two frames Meta knight is one of the lighter characters. That is his biggest weakness, And why they go for an early gimp. In a high percent match against, say snake meta will be killed fast. Meta has one LONG grab release animation [not as long as Luca and Ness but still long] which can rack up nice dmg and set-up for other stuff. Meta`s matchups are continually getting worse as other boards are figuring out what works. Meta has 4 50-50 matchups now, instead of one. Soon there will be a 60-40 in a different characters advantage soon enough. LMAO, defending MK? There is no denying MK is the best character in the game, and lol at having 4 supposed 50-50 match-ups like that's a bad thing. Oh noes?!?! MK is as leet as he once was!?!?! |
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